Someone once said, “those who live by the sword, die by the sword.”
You don't suppose he was talking about us, do ya'?
I'm not predicting our demise but I am certain that our so-called “American way of life” is doomed. And good riddance. Why? Just look what we have become.
There will be a grand, new nation to replace the putrid rotting corpse festering where once was a magnificent shining star. We are fortunate to live in these times … to experience the death of the old and the birth of the new.
Sunday • August 09 2009
Americas Discussion
Are you proud to be an American?
mark
FoolYap
I feel a bit like America is my increasingly dysfunctional extended family. Every year the annual family picnic gets more strident and embarrassing. Cousins drive up in brand new Escalades; alternate between bragging about their latest bling and bitching about how they're behind on their payments; try to cop a feel on whomever's nearest; drink too much; upchuck on the dessert table; and fall down and lay snoring on someone else's picnic blanket.
Many family members seem to come for the show, and spend their time people-watching and grazing contentedly on the buffet. They'll use their cell phones to take snapshots of the passed-out cousin with his pants down around his ankles, and text them to friends, going "OMG! L0ser!"
The interesting activity happens out on the margins, when you become aware of small groups of the family off by themselves, under a shade tree. Some of them people-watch too, sipping higher-class beers while congratulating themselves that they aren't the drunken cousins swilling generic.
But some groups are talking quietly about things of consequence. If you listen, you'll realize that these are some of the people who represent the aspects of your extended family that make you proud to be part of it. They seem like a shrinking minority of it. But it's not all drunken vain stupidity in the family, and those are the parts you latch onto if you don't want to change your name and move away.
--Steve
Many family members seem to come for the show, and spend their time people-watching and grazing contentedly on the buffet. They'll use their cell phones to take snapshots of the passed-out cousin with his pants down around his ankles, and text them to friends, going "OMG! L0ser!"
The interesting activity happens out on the margins, when you become aware of small groups of the family off by themselves, under a shade tree. Some of them people-watch too, sipping higher-class beers while congratulating themselves that they aren't the drunken cousins swilling generic.
But some groups are talking quietly about things of consequence. If you listen, you'll realize that these are some of the people who represent the aspects of your extended family that make you proud to be part of it. They seem like a shrinking minority of it. But it's not all drunken vain stupidity in the family, and those are the parts you latch onto if you don't want to change your name and move away.
--Steve
AgentR
I feel honored and humbled to be an American, but also sad to be witness to the end of that which made it so unique. We're gradually becoming just another government dominated disaster with occasional elections to see which idiot get to pull the chain on the engines horn.
The decline is depressing... To pretend the decline is not happening in its own way in other countries is foolish.
The decline is depressing... To pretend the decline is not happening in its own way in other countries is foolish.
coyote
"Proud" is the wrong word. Pride I reserve for good things that I have accomplished personally. Being an American isn't in that category. What did I ever do to be an American, besides having the good fortune to be born here? I suppose I can be a little proud of some of the ways I've participated, the votes, the public discussions - but other than that being an American has all been pretty much handed to me.
Proud? No - lucky.
Proud? No - lucky.
jbrovont
I'm proud to be an American, and of my heritage. I'm embarrassed and deeply angered by the shame that's been brought on the United States by those claiming to be American Patriots while systematically destroying the ideals at the core of that heritage.
Freedom from tyrany isn't a reality - it's an idea, and to me the flag does still stand for that, even if it's been dragged through the mud, stepped on and spit on by the plutocrats. Try as they might, imo they really can't take that away.
Freedom from tyrany isn't a reality - it's an idea, and to me the flag does still stand for that, even if it's been dragged through the mud, stepped on and spit on by the plutocrats. Try as they might, imo they really can't take that away.
Ronin
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" Oscar Wild
pablonite
Sixstrings wrote:
I don't "hate America," but honestly, what exactly are we celebrating this coming 4th of July?
If you don't support them then you are unpatriotic and probably a terrorist yourself.
It was that easy to turn 1700's America completely upside down in a little over 200 years and it didn't take them long to get started on that.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." James Madison (1809–1817)
JJ
I was born here.
One day, while living in the Philippines, an Australian doctor said to me; "you should thank God you were born with white skin."
my roommate, who was an ex-vietnam drill instructor, said "today".
One day, while living in the Philippines, an Australian doctor said to me; "you should thank God you were born with white skin."
my roommate, who was an ex-vietnam drill instructor, said "today".
green_achers
FoolYap, one of the best written things I've seen here.
GASMON
America built itself up from virtually nothing to greatness through bloody hard work and higher moral standards than most other countries.
Then you found oil, it made you rich and lax.
Now the oil is nearly gone, much worry and grief.
Go back to basics. Build a great country again, but NOT dependant on other countries for Oil, Raw materials or imported goods.
ITS THE ONLY WAY
BTW Get a new president. Obama is past his sell by date allready. Another elite controlled puppet.
Gasmon (Proud to be ENGLISH (not British) - but god only knows why.
Then you found oil, it made you rich and lax.
Now the oil is nearly gone, much worry and grief.
Go back to basics. Build a great country again, but NOT dependant on other countries for Oil, Raw materials or imported goods.
ITS THE ONLY WAY
BTW Get a new president. Obama is past his sell by date allready. Another elite controlled puppet.
Gasmon (Proud to be ENGLISH (not British) - but god only knows why.
FoolYap
GASMON wrote:
America built itself up from virtually nothing to greatness through bloody hard work and higher moral standards than most other countries.
<eyebrow raised> "Higher moral standards"? </eyebrow raised>
I suspect the original Americans would beg to differ.
Frankly, America as a country is little better than most of its First-World peers. At times it's brilliant, at times it's repugnant, at times it's amazingly generous, and at times it's one of the most viciously selfish SOBs around.
Telling ourselves only the good parts is a disservice to our better natures, as paving over the bad parts makes it easier for our leaders to commit the next bad part, with blindly jingoistic citizens cheering and waving the flag the whole way.
--Steve
Ayoob
I love this place. Just hung my American flag off the front porch a minute ago. It first flew over Mount Vernon on Independence Day, 2007.
green_achers
Ayoob wrote:
I love this place. Just hung my American flag off the front porch a minute ago. It first flew over Mount Vernon on Independence Day, 2007.
Is that the length you have to go to to get one that wasn't made in China?
outcast
Before I left the US in 2005 I always felt Americans were too sure of themselves, to some degree many still are, but not as many as before. Instead what there is now is a major sense of insecurity, that has often been projected onto certain other countries.
billbrasky2
patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels
pstarr
Are you proud to be an American?
Why should I be? What have we done for the world, except to breed with the best of them all the way to overshoot. We continue to delude ourselves that we are special, just like ignorant humans have always done.
We have squandered the greatest last bountiful and beautiful place on the planet. We have covered our farmlands with suburban sprawl, stripped our prairies of soil, and stolen the clean flowing rivers.
We live in our ghettos and are deluded we are free. We sit mesmerized by bright shiny images and repeat claptrap about freedom, convenience, choice, excellence, family while we have none of these things. All American have is the freedom to talk about freedom. Talk is cheap.
Meanwhile we have sold off our communities to the highest bidders. We have no more civic life--the thing that makes for a warm, secure, friendly and dignified existence. Few have access to common lands, city centers, public spaces, open squares, water fronts, parks, meeting places (other than starbucks). No street life, chance meetings, gratifying encounters.
We are godless vain consumers. We buy things to make us feel real We jump on the latest craze (second home? twitter, nanoshmano, black wheels? Costa Rica, the surge, green shoots, use it up--throw it out.) but we produce less and less for our lives. We control the world because we can not control our own lives.
We have disconnected ourselves from nature and thus we have no appreciation of it and are destroying the beautiful places. I don't mean the fucking views--distant flat ocean surface/mountain peak. We destroyed the small intimate places where our souls used to live. Where are the free rivers, country lanes, small meadows, the forest glades, brooks, ponds, streams, marshes. All gone under plow and street.
We live crass, dirty, polluted, hectic lives in broken down towns and dilapidated cities. Except for new crass, cheap new shopping malls and vinyl sided houses the country is falling apart. Old concrete slabs, tired cinderblock strip malls, rusting bridges, potholed asphalt, broken power lines, cracked sidewalks, massage parlors, etc. etc. We rush on highways to avoid the blight and ignore the shame.
The only thing new and clean are our cars and the oil is running out.
Why should I be? What have we done for the world, except to breed with the best of them all the way to overshoot. We continue to delude ourselves that we are special, just like ignorant humans have always done.
We have squandered the greatest last bountiful and beautiful place on the planet. We have covered our farmlands with suburban sprawl, stripped our prairies of soil, and stolen the clean flowing rivers.
We live in our ghettos and are deluded we are free. We sit mesmerized by bright shiny images and repeat claptrap about freedom, convenience, choice, excellence, family while we have none of these things. All American have is the freedom to talk about freedom. Talk is cheap.
Meanwhile we have sold off our communities to the highest bidders. We have no more civic life--the thing that makes for a warm, secure, friendly and dignified existence. Few have access to common lands, city centers, public spaces, open squares, water fronts, parks, meeting places (other than starbucks). No street life, chance meetings, gratifying encounters.
We are godless vain consumers. We buy things to make us feel real We jump on the latest craze (second home? twitter, nanoshmano, black wheels? Costa Rica, the surge, green shoots, use it up--throw it out.) but we produce less and less for our lives. We control the world because we can not control our own lives.
We have disconnected ourselves from nature and thus we have no appreciation of it and are destroying the beautiful places. I don't mean the fucking views--distant flat ocean surface/mountain peak. We destroyed the small intimate places where our souls used to live. Where are the free rivers, country lanes, small meadows, the forest glades, brooks, ponds, streams, marshes. All gone under plow and street.
We live crass, dirty, polluted, hectic lives in broken down towns and dilapidated cities. Except for new crass, cheap new shopping malls and vinyl sided houses the country is falling apart. Old concrete slabs, tired cinderblock strip malls, rusting bridges, potholed asphalt, broken power lines, cracked sidewalks, massage parlors, etc. etc. We rush on highways to avoid the blight and ignore the shame.
The only thing new and clean are our cars and the oil is running out.
green_achers
I guess this is a good place to put this:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/07/06-8
Untold Truths About the American Revolution
by Howard Zinn
[snip]
You might consider that worth it, or you might not.
Canada is independent of England, isn't it? I think so. Not a bad society. Canadians have good health care. They have a lot of things we don't have. They didn't fight a bloody revolutionary war. Why do we assume that we had to fight a bloody revolutionary war to get rid of England?
[snip]
Do you think the Indians cared about independence from England? No, in fact, the Indians were unhappy that we won independence from England, because England had set a line-in the Proclamation of 1763-that said you couldn't go westward into Indian territory. They didn't do it because they loved the Indians. They didn't want trouble. When Britain was defeated in the Revolutionary War, that line was eliminated, and now the way was open for the colonists to move westward across the continent, which they did for the next 100 years, committing massacres and making sure that they destroyed Indian civilization.
So when you look at the American Revolution, there's a fact that you have to take into consideration. Indians-no, they didn't benefit.
Did blacks benefit from the American Revolution?
Slavery was there before. Slavery was there after. Not only that, we wrote slavery into the Constitution. We legitimized it.
[I'll let you read the rest in the original]
I would note that the Native Americans always took the side of whoever were fighting the Americans, from the French and Indian War, thru the Revolution, down to most of the tribes siding with the South during the First War of Capitalist Imperialism.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/07/06-8
Untold Truths About the American Revolution
by Howard Zinn
[snip]
Quote:
Nobody ever knows exactly how many people die in wars, but it's likely that 25,000 to 50,000 people died in this one. So let's take the lower figure-25,000 people died out of a population of three million. That would be equivalent today to two and a half million people dying to get England off our backs.You might consider that worth it, or you might not.
Canada is independent of England, isn't it? I think so. Not a bad society. Canadians have good health care. They have a lot of things we don't have. They didn't fight a bloody revolutionary war. Why do we assume that we had to fight a bloody revolutionary war to get rid of England?
[snip]
Quote:
Who actually gained from that victory over England? It's very important to ask about any policy, and especially about war: Who gained what? And it's very important to notice differences among the various parts of the population. That's one thing were not accustomed to in this country because we don't think in class terms. We think, "Oh, we all have the same interests." For instance, we think that we all had the same interests in independence from England. We did not have all the same interests.Do you think the Indians cared about independence from England? No, in fact, the Indians were unhappy that we won independence from England, because England had set a line-in the Proclamation of 1763-that said you couldn't go westward into Indian territory. They didn't do it because they loved the Indians. They didn't want trouble. When Britain was defeated in the Revolutionary War, that line was eliminated, and now the way was open for the colonists to move westward across the continent, which they did for the next 100 years, committing massacres and making sure that they destroyed Indian civilization.
So when you look at the American Revolution, there's a fact that you have to take into consideration. Indians-no, they didn't benefit.
Did blacks benefit from the American Revolution?
Slavery was there before. Slavery was there after. Not only that, we wrote slavery into the Constitution. We legitimized it.
[I'll let you read the rest in the original]
I would note that the Native Americans always took the side of whoever were fighting the Americans, from the French and Indian War, thru the Revolution, down to most of the tribes siding with the South during the First War of Capitalist Imperialism.
Nickel
GASMON wrote:
America built itself up from virtually nothing to greatness through bloody hard work and higher moral standards than most other countries.
Geez, Gaz, if you suck any harder in the direction of the USA, Wales is gonna fly right up in and hit in you in the face.
Mike Morin
Nickel wrote:
GASMON wrote:
America built itself up from virtually nothing to greatness through bloody hard work and higher moral standards than most other countries.
Geez, Gaz, if you suck any harder in the direction of the USA, Wales is gonna fly right up in and hit in you in the face.
Hugo Chavez makes me proud to be an American.
Barracks O'Bomber makes me ashamed to be a United Statesee...
Sure there was hard work involved, there always is. But the bubble wealth of the US was more created by genocide, rape, plunder, greed, and maybe hard work, but stupid, exploitative, and myopic work.
MM
bodigami
green_achers wrote:
I guess this is a good place to put this:http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/07/06-8
Untold Truths About the American Revolution
by Howard Zinn
[snip]
Quote:
Nobody ever knows exactly how many people die in wars, but it's likely that 25,000 to 50,000 people died in this one. So let's take the lower figure-25,000 people died out of a population of three million. That would be equivalent today to two and a half million people dying to get England off our backs.You might consider that worth it, or you might not.
Canada is independent of England, isn't it? I think so. Not a bad society. Canadians have good health care. They have a lot of things we don't have. They didn't fight a bloody revolutionary war. Why do we assume that we had to fight a bloody revolutionary war to get rid of England?
[snip]
Quote:
Who actually gained from that victory over England? It's very important to ask about any policy, and especially about war: Who gained what? And it's very important to notice differences among the various parts of the population. That's one thing were not accustomed to in this country because we don't think in class terms. We think, "Oh, we all have the same interests." For instance, we think that we all had the same interests in independence from England. We did not have all the same interests.Do you think the Indians cared about independence from England? No, in fact, the Indians were unhappy that we won independence from England, because England had set a line-in the Proclamation of 1763-that said you couldn't go westward into Indian territory. They didn't do it because they loved the Indians. They didn't want trouble. When Britain was defeated in the Revolutionary War, that line was eliminated, and now the way was open for the colonists to move westward across the continent, which they did for the next 100 years, committing massacres and making sure that they destroyed Indian civilization.
So when you look at the American Revolution, there's a fact that you have to take into consideration. Indians-no, they didn't benefit.
Did blacks benefit from the American Revolution?
Slavery was there before. Slavery was there after. Not only that, we wrote slavery into the Constitution. We legitimized it.
[I'll let you read the rest in the original]
I would note that the Native Americans always took the side of whoever were fighting the Americans, from the French and Indian War, thru the Revolution, down to most of the tribes siding with the South during the First War of Capitalist Imperialism.
Apache and Sioux have honor then. Nice allies for the conquest of USA.
timmac
pstarr wrote:
Are you proud to be an American?Why should I be? What have we done for the world, except to breed with the best of them all the way to overshoot. We continue to delude ourselves that we are special, just like ignorant humans have always done.
We have squandered the greatest last bountiful and beautiful place on the planet. We have covered our farmlands with suburban sprawl, stripped our prairies of soil, and stolen the clean flowing rivers.
We live in our ghettos and are deluded we are free. We sit mesmerized by bright shiny images and repeat claptrap about freedom, convenience, choice, excellence, family while we have none of these things. All American have is the freedom to talk about freedom. Talk is cheap.
Meanwhile we have sold off our communities to the highest bidders. We have no more civic life--the thing that makes for a warm, secure, friendly and dignified existence. Few have access to common lands, city centers, public spaces, open squares, water fronts, parks, meeting places (other than starbucks). No street life, chance meetings, gratifying encounters.
We are godless vain consumers. We buy things to make us feel real We jump on the latest craze (second home? twitter, nanoshmano, black wheels? Costa Rica, the surge, green shoots, use it up--throw it out.) but we produce less and less for our lives. We control the world because we can not control our own lives.
We have disconnected ourselves from nature and thus we have no appreciation of it and are destroying the beautiful places. I don't mean the fucking views--distant flat ocean surface/mountain peak. We destroyed the small intimate places where our souls used to live. Where are the free rivers, country lanes, small meadows, the forest glades, brooks, ponds, streams, marshes. All gone under plow and street.
We live crass, dirty, polluted, hectic lives in broken down towns and dilapidated cities. Except for new crass, cheap new shopping malls and vinyl sided houses the country is falling apart. Old concrete slabs, tired cinderblock strip malls, rusting bridges, potholed asphalt, broken power lines, cracked sidewalks, massage parlors, etc. etc. We rush on highways to avoid the blight and ignore the shame.
The only thing new and clean are our cars and the oil is running out.
Vegas is new and clean.
